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theflyguy

Two hand striper rod

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So this is for your guys that Spey/switch cast. I am gonna get a set up this season for this style of casting and am curious on what the majority of you two hand guys use for stripers. I mainly want to learn to Spey/switch style cast. Do more of you use Spey rods or switch rods? I want something good for rivers that permit the use of one and surf. That being said not sure if I want a 11-12 ft switch or 12+Spey rod I was told on another post a 7 wt would be like my nine wt one handed. I really want to get into this so any and all info is appreciated. 

Thanks

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I use the sage VXP 7133-4.  Have three actually because I like the rod that much.  It likes lines in the 510 grain Scandi Steelhead line in the freshwater if you are doing a Scandi type cast.

540 grain Skagit for Skagit casting.  

In the salt if you are bottom fishing 510 grain T17 30' head with a straight floating running line casting overhead.

The line comparison on this rod is closer to a ten weight.

Different seven weight rods from different manufacturers will have some that feel more like a nine weight.  The length and action of the rods will make the difference in the feel. 

Good luck if you are looking for an all around rod.

 

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fly - it really all depends on the style of fishing you're going to be doing and the conditions.

  • Spey rods are often used on flats when it's calm and in conjunction with a water load. Alan is the master of this method.
  • For overhead casting, particularly in breaking surf, a switch rod can be a better choice as it doesn't require a water load. I believe Rich Murphy fishes a 9wt Sage Method Switch.
  • I was recently out casting my 8119 Method, and think it overheads beautifully with an SA Titan Intermediate 500gr.
  • For salmon and steelhead, I would generally recommend a full spey as they are easier to learn on and more useful overall. Using a 7wt spey in Maine in freshwater won't be very much fun...

 

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So when I said rivers I meant as in like tidal rivers/ river mouths still for stripers. So I guess I am still unclear a bit here about the Spey style casting. Do you guys Spey cast much in the surf or just use it overhead like a one hander most of the time. As in like, you know d loops snap t traditional Spey? This  is the stuff I want to learn I fish for stripers a lot of places with current. I do flat fish too but like rivers mouths a lot where I could get a decent swing. Do people Spey cast of any sort (water loaded no false casts) with crabs? Wicked newbie too two hand idea but the casting style looks fun. I assume clousers, decievers, etc. are all good when Spey casting? I have my one hander if I want to over head cast

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On April 27, 2017 at 9:29 PM, theflyguy said:

So when I said rivers I meant as in like tidal rivers/ river mouths still for stripers. So I guess I am still unclear a bit here about the Spey style casting. Do you guys Spey cast much in the surf or just use it overhead like a one hander most of the time. As in like, you know d loops snap t traditional Spey? This  is the stuff I want to learn I fish for stripers a lot of places with current. I do flat fish too but like rivers mouths a lot where I could get a decent swing. Do people Spey cast of any sort (water loaded no false casts) with crabs? Wicked newbie too two hand idea but the casting style looks fun. I assume clousers, decievers, etc. are all good when Spey casting? I have my one hander if I want to over head cast

I do not generally Spey Cast the salt whether rivers,flats or ocean for Stripers.  The only time is when bluefish are in the area and that has been very rarely for the past number of years in the places we fish.  Even if they were around, generally speaking they would be found in the open areas we wade and an overhead cast would be preferable using a traditional skagit head in place of the T17 head I bottom fish with.  

Let me clarify overhead cast.

It is not the traditional type cast you are used to when fishing single hand rod.  The cast Ben from Trident Fly speaks of, is an water born anchor cast.  Even with that said the water load in my case is combined with an elliptical underhand cast to an overhead delivery.  This is not a new cast and has been around for years.  You can look at it as a hybrid between a spey (water born anchor) and a Belgian Cast (a traditional cast used in windy conditions an elliptical cast by single handed casters).

Simply speaking you lay the shooting head on the water in front of you but only for a moment before it can sink.  There should be absolutely no slack between the end of the sinking shooting head and the running line with the rod tip right down on the water.  You then make a wide sweeping low underhand cast using the line like an anchor point stretching and bending the rod to accelerate the head with the fly back under the rod tip behind you.  The rod is held low during this maneuver and at the end of the backcast moves into a roundup position in a typical spey move.  Your upper hand with the rod is positioned  eye or ear height with the bottom hand outstretched in front of you center of chest. You then push straight forward with the upper hand and pull inward and down with the bottom hand toward your belt buckle. Be sure to stop the rod tip on the forward cast in the ten o'clock position so that the rod unloads the stored energy. Do not follow the cast down until the rod unloads and everything is on its way.  

You will not get  the distance with a single hand cast using this method as with the two hand rod.  Hundred foot casts are the norm using this casting style.  

Let me meet you somewhere like Ferry Beach in Scarborough on Saturday morning and we can do these casts together.  Anyone else interested I have the gear. We can discuss any type of casts at that time.  Do not try these casts on your own without some instruction first.  A fly on the leader during the learning process can spell disaster.

Have to go to work

 

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I am pretty sure I have seen you at ferry walk the beach then nap in the parking lot. I might be wrong but I do fish there often when the crowds permit for it. I work out of Scarborough so am in the area a lot. I was contemplating going there this weekend to check out the low tide

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9 hours ago, theflyguy said:

I am pretty sure I have seen you at ferry walk the beach then nap in the parking lot. I might be wrong but I do fish there often when the crowds permit for it. I work out of Scarborough so am in the area a lot. I was contemplating going there this weekend to check out the low tide

Yeh 

That was probably me.  It looks like low tide is around 8AM and is in the minus column that will give you or anyone else a good view of the bottom. The changes from the winter storms will be real apparent.

I could meet with you or anyone else who wants to drop by at 8AM for a chance to get the feel of these rods.  

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Alan thanks again for today it was really awesome to try one and have a bit of direction on it. I still have many questions as I am sure is not super surprising but was definitely fun and has got me that much more interested. I looked at cabelas later in the day but all there lsi's were switch sizes 11.6 was the longest. I also went to ll bean and looked they had I think it was a streamlite 13 ft might of been 8 wt. So I am gonna look at a couple more spots then maybe order something if I can't find one that I think will work well. Trident is 20 minutes or so away so I might go talk with them. So here's one of my questions on line set up the lsi was skagit? And your sage was traditional Spey line? I am assuming the skagit lines has more versatility? Just curious on what line set up would be best to start with. I found the sage set up much easier to cast as it seemed like I got more better casts out of it. I am not gonna lie I was nervous for your rod so maybe with my own I won't be as gun shy with it. Like I said though thank you. Who would of thought fishing without a hook could be that much fun.

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Best all around rod would be a fast action 12' to 12'6" 7 weight.  You will never cast a shorter switch rod with one hand so why use one.  It should be set up just like a salt water single hand rod with salt resistant hardware and over sized single foot guides.  Make sure the fore grip is at least 13" long.  The line set up will be a 9 weight shooting head no different than with a single hand 9 weight rod except the head should be in the 36 foot range rather than the typical 30 foot.  Casting will be fulcrum style with mostly bottom power with a slightly open loop.  The heavier the fly the more open loop desired.  Alan talking about a Belgian cast works well because it is a constant tension cast and no back stop being desired.  The pickup is a jump roll in stagnant water and a spiral jump or direct pick up into the back cast when the tide is moving to the side.  Each will shoot between 6' and 10' according to ability into the back cast to get some overhang of the head and a deep bend in the rod prior to the forward stroke.  The beauty of the two hand rod is that, in most cases, each cast will require only one back cast.  This give us more time with our fly fishing through any given session.

The negative with the longer rod makes it harder to get a fish in hand when wading.

Feel free to call me if you want to talk.  603-501-9511

 

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William

Thanks for additional input.  I defer to the experts like you guys for instruction on Spey Casting in general.

theflyguy

You are more than welcome.  The line being used was just a straight piece of T17 not really considered Skagit nor Scandi connected to a straight .032" diameter running line.  It would be impossible to  make any type cast in Skagit or Scandi style with that head.  I chose that strictly for the cast I showed you.  As Topher told me when he suggested choosing that head for fishing crabs and clouser patterns;  it won't be pretty but will sure get you out there!  Boy was he ever right!

You certainly have the bug and taking some classes from any of the fellows mentioned in my previous posts would be advantageous now that you know enough to be dangerous!  

Casting of this type is soooooo much fun and I'm glad you enjoyed yourself. 

No worries on using the rod.  Now you know why I do not recommend using anything on the end of the leader except a piece of yarn when learning to cast two handed of any type.  The click you hear if the rod is hit by a hook or anything else is the sound of the rod preparing to break.  If not on the initial cast when that happens but soon....very soon!  It is not a question of if, but when it will happen.  

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Alan, any chance you would be up to give another lesson before the season starts? I just saw this post or I would have taken the trip to ferry 

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It was a great experience. Just gonna say be ready to buy a two hander after.......No joke I haven't stopped shopping around since saterday afternoon don't get me wrong I like my one hander but all that's been on my mind is learning more about the two hand game. Even with my crappy cast how much line went out was still decent not even trying for long casts as I only had so much stripped out. But you can tell when you do a decent enough cast it feels real smooth and just throws the line out so fast I could totally tell distance casts will come much easier on a nice two hander once I can kick my one hander casting habits while using it. It definitely is gonna take some practice but I can tell I am gonna have a lot of fun casting it

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9 hours ago, RjL11 said:

Alan, any chance you would be up to give another lesson before the season starts? I just saw this post or I would have taken the trip to ferry 

I could do that but was wondering how many others would be interested in something like this.

If so William Ciaurro would be willing to make a trip up here at no cost to show everyone what is possible fishing these rods in the salt.  Time and place would be determined by the interest of those reading this post. 

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I would be interested and would make every effort to be there if the day and time worked.  Thanks Alan and William.

--Erik

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Well I definitely would be there I still need a lot of practice. Still trying to find a stick not much of in stock selection around. I have checked with ll bean, cabelas, and now trident. Hopefully I can find one soon as I only have a few weeks before the stripers show up and am gonna have to do some more practice with it

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On 5/1/2017 at 8:34 PM, Alan said:

I could do that but was wondering how many others would be interested in something like this.

If so William Ciaurro would be willing to make a trip up here at no cost to show everyone what is possible fishing these rods in the salt.  Time and place would be determined by the interest of those reading this post. 

Alan - I'd be interested as well, depending upon the timing that works for other guys.  I was just reading this post and wished I had reviewed this forum last week!   Thanks. 

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caught_ the_fever

No worries.  I am sitting on this post waiting for more replies. 

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Ha me too hope some more people bite. I am thinking I am gonna go lower end for my first rod until I get the casting down so I don't break a expensive rod learning to use it. So that being said I might go with a llbean rod or cabelas lsi rod do to the fact if I do break it , it will be quicker and easier to replace/fix. 

Alan is your lsi a 8wt I couldn't find one in 7wt. 12.6 was the longest one I found in the 7 wt and the reel was that a 9-10 or a 11-12 just curious because if I go with the lsi I will just get the same line set up you had on there? 

I wonder how many people on the forum actually use two handers as it just seems the logical route to me for covering more water easier. The ease of shooting a distance is a big one. Maybe people are interested but don't have the gear and are afraid to use someone else's I don't know. 

Caught_the_fever is gonna be right if you get to try one lol.

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maybe we make a post in the regular fly fishing section to bring more eyes as guys might not look in this section much. It would be like newbie day for two hand fly rods

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I am fine with how ever many are interested.  I was teaching a fellow from Boston yesterday who is an avid bass angler.  We went through the entire set up to shooting delivery using no more than one back cast.  His set up is a 13' fast 7 weight.  Remember the goal is not distance although that is possible.  The goal is more casts and the result is your fly fishing for more seconds per outing.  

Alan, lets talk on Monday and hope we get some more interest.

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I feel a two-handah Newbie day comin' .

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1 hour ago, Mainiac said:

I feel a two-handah Newbie day comin' .

Are you my friend, coming over to the dark side?

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