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Sutehoot

Shooting line twist

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Just got a Rio Skagit Trout Max for my single hand six-weight, and it's awesome. First true skagit/spey setup, I plan on getting a similar setup to match my two-hander as well. Only problem is my shooting line has twisted insanely after one weekend of fishing. Am I just using too thin of a line, or is it my casting mechanics (which are still pretty raw)? I've got Rio Slickshooter 25lb for the 225 grain head. It hasn't affected the cast much, at least not yet, but if it continues it'll start tangling and getting caught in the guides. Hoping that just upping the shooting line diameter will help...

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10 hours ago, Sutehoot said:

Just got a Rio Skagit Trout Max for my single hand six-weight, and it's awesome. First true skagit/spey setup, I plan on getting a similar setup to match my two-hander as well. Only problem is my shooting line has twisted insanely after one weekend of fishing. Am I just using too thin of a line, or is it my casting mechanics (which are still pretty raw)? I've got Rio Slickshooter 25lb for the 225 grain head. It hasn't affected the cast much, at least not yet, but if it continues it'll start tangling and getting caught in the guides. Hoping that just upping the shooting line diameter will help...

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Rio makes a item that is supposed to solve your problem.  It's a swivel on short leads that you attach between your head and running line. Haven't tried it but have read good reviews.

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Everyone has that problem with Spey casting short heads.

Every cast you make forms  a 1/2 twist into the line system.

A Lefty Kreh suggestion works well,,, do not have any running line left over at end of your cast,, the running line should slap the rod blank. This is an old saltwater trick when fishing from a boat.

When I do get mono running line twist after a few hours,, if you are RH Upper casting,,, take the shooing head in your fingers and rotate or twist the head with your fingers counterclockwise, looking down the line at the fly,,,,, the running line will gradually untwist.

Second solution is to cast off your LH shoulder, this is for a RH Upper caster,,, this causes opposite line twist.

You can also remove the shooting head and let the running line hang downstream, this will remove some but not all of the twist,,, helps to pinch the line in fingers and draw it down to the loop.

Regards,

FK

 

 

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I've also discovered that allowing the full length of the line you've been casting to hang in the current below you, pointing the rod straight at it, and rotating the rod against the twist helps quite a bit. Also, the old soak your spool (without the head) in hot water the day or two before fishing helps with twist and memory as well.

 

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All of the above suggestions are good.  Get used to the line twist in running lines and don't let it ruin your day.  

The smaller the running line diameter the greater the line twist.  There are lots of discussion on some of the spey forums as to the advantages of thicker running lines.   Some theorize it puts a certain amount of drag when casting to get a good turn over with the head and leader straightening out completely.  What works for you is probably what matters most due to casting style of the individual.  

Get out there and experiment.  The best part of this two hand casting is the learning experience for you as that individual.  The final result is what feels right and works for you.  Do take advice from others that you meet if you are having a casting problem.  Comparing notes and perhaps setting up a camera to analyze your own cast maybe just the ticket.  

The bottom line guys and gals is to have fun.

Enjoy.  I do.:)  

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The wierd thing is about the twists the only time it really starts to piss me off is when it's windy and I am fighting to keep the line in the stripping basketsthen you try to cast and all your line just balls up. When it's not windy I don't notice it as much. Two handers are a blast though and I will be hacking cast with it next season too can't wait

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On 10/18/2017 at 6:39 PM, Alan said:

The bottom line guys and gals is to have fun.

Enjoy.  I do.:)  

Ditto Alan. It's been a blast getting into this thing. I've actually been doing single-hand skagit casting with my normal 9' 6wt. a lot more than the two-hand thing-most of our rivers are just too small, with obstacles too close to the water, to require the two-hander or make it practical. I also like how I can haul with the single-hand rod. Swinging flies is the way to go...

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Check out the video on youtube by Ed Ward   Fixing a twisted running line-OPST. 

It works!

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Although you'll get some twist with most every line, I have found the 25 lb Slickshooter to be more susceptible to the twist.  One thing I do to minimize it is to change up my cast pretty regular and that also gets you more proficient in the variety of casts.  For instance I might do 5 snap t's then 5 double speys, throw in some single speys and snakerolls and it seems to minimize the twist.  I also use Berkely Big Game 40 lb mono as a shooting line for most everything now and it seems to work pretty well.

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River of Life

Have you tried any of the OPST Lazer Lines? If you have not.... give them a try.

I have found that Lazer Running Lines 40lb test and larger are phenomenal whether using Scandi or Skagit heads!  (The 40lb  pound rating works well right down into the trout spey weights which you would think would be too thick.) The line diameter of the 40lb  OPST is smaller than that of the Berkley Big Game in the same pound rating.  

Number one.The line is supple with very little memory and think it handles better when put on the reel correctly.... that is with the line coming off the bottom of the spool and onto the bottom of the reel so that if looked at as the front and back tires of a car from the side they should be rolling in the same direction.This is not my opinion but again I believe the advice of Ed Ward.  Makes sense to me.

The second point to make is to stretch it in short sections when using the first time each day as demonstrated by Ed Ward. You can feel the line stretch a bit when done this way and caution anyone doing this the first few times not to overstretch it!  I ruined the first one I tried by doing just that.  Just give it a slight tug as Ed shows you in his videos and you should have no problem!

Stretching the line with lots of line out by having someone hold the end of the line seems to exasperate the tendency to coil. It seems to me that it doesn't stretch uniformly when done this way.   If you follow Ed's advice you should have minimal problems.   It casts as though there is nothing attached to the head.  I love the way it shoots!

Geez...do I seem a little over enthusiastic?  

 

Thank you very much for responding.  For those of you new to this forum this gentleman is one of the go to people for anything spey.  

For the other folks who have responded so far, your advice is very much appreciated also.  The only way we can get better at anything we do is to take the advice of others and give it a try.

Thank you all!

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Alan,

Thank you for your kind words and enthusiastic approach to the two handed game, its contagious!  Its definitely a very satisfying method of fishing that keeps ya coming back for more.  My hardest problem is trying to decide what two hander I want to fish with on a given day. :D

I have tried the Lazer line that was on a client rod and it was pretty nice, just haven't gotten around to getting one for myself.  The 370 yd. spool of Big Game for $9.99 has held me back for awhile but I will venture that way one day just to try different stuff.  Thanks for the info from Ed Ward on the Lazer line stretch.

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On 12/26/2017 at 9:41 PM, River of Life said:

Alan,

Thank you for your kind words and enthusiastic approach to the two handed game, its contagious!  Its definitely a very satisfying method of fishing that keeps ya coming back for more.  My hardest problem is trying to decide what two hander I want to fish with on a given day. :D

I have tried the Lazer line that was on a client rod and it was pretty nice, just haven't gotten around to getting one for myself.  The 370 yd. spool of Big Game for $9.99 has held me back for awhile but I will venture that way one day just to try different stuff.  Thanks for the info from Ed Ward on the Lazer line stretch.

You are welcome.  I have met quite a few other people as well who have the credentials and look to them for advice,  The best part of forums like these is the people we meet and being able to share the knowledge. 

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13 hours ago, bobbrown said:

Alan....how does the lazer line lay in a shooting basket. 

 When fishing freshwater I do not use a stripping basket.  My line handling is with a series of large coils in rivers as with any typical Spey cast.   In ponds I just lay the line out around me and am not to concerned about the tangling.  

The saltwater is a different story and here I do use a stripping basket.  The Lazer line is no better or worse than using any other running line in a basket when it comes to tangling.  However the big advantage of these lines is their small diameter and high breaking strength.  I have found that the 40 and 50lb test lines are a good choice when fishing the salt, the choice is yours. They do shoot like a Lazer as described by Ed Ward and the extra distance that you get from these lines is a plus!

 

 

 

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So....not excessive wind blow due to light weight.  Have always used a coated line cause weight keeps it in the basket better. But might have to give Lazer a try.

you find wind a big problem

 

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4 hours ago, bobbrown said:

So....not excessive wind blow due to light weight.  Have always used a coated line cause weight keeps it in the basket better. But might have to give Lazer a try.

you find wind a big problem

 

Now that is a very good question!  

You know I never gave it much thought, since lines blowing out of stripping baskets can be at times problematic and is something we just live with.  There aren't to many days fishing the salt that at some point we don't  have wind as an issue.  Most times the biggest problem with the wind is its direction relative to where we would like to cast.

I had to think about your problem.  These questions are the ones I really like since it does take some thought since it seems at the time to be someone else's issue and not so much one of your own.

Looking back now to a fall fishing trip at Cape Cod the wind was a real problem.  The winds were straight line and not gusting. On this particular trip I had spent most of my time trying to find a place to fish that if you couldn't completely avoid the wind, at least have it more or less off your back.

There was a beach near the South end of the canal on the Cape that had the wind quartering off my right shoulder, already not the best situation. This however is what I was dealt and the frustration of not being able to catch fish because of the incessant wind was wearing on my patience.  My theory was to wade out as far as I could, turn facing more to my left and could at least make quartering casts down the length of the beach.  The casting was more or less a success.  The more was catching fish and the less was line blowing out of the basket. You and others use of heavier lines to keep them lying in the bottom of the stripping basket as a solution in most cases is the best solution.  

However on this particular day even those lines would have been a challenge.  Coincidently the line I was using on this trip was the OPST 40lb Lazer Line. It was light, really light. It seemed it was out of the basket more than in. The wind formed a vortex around the front of me and like a tornado lifted it right out of the basket.  

I first tried swinging the basket more off my left hip and that didn't make a bit of difference. My second attempt was partially filling the basket with water and soon realized that you have to get the line into the water before its friction would hold it in place.  In total frustration I fired out a cast with the line still in the water beside me and in that instant the solution!  The line in the water, no tidal flow, small diameter with little drag equals near perfect casts. Contrary to any advice we would give to anyones first introduction to the salt, not using a stripping basket would not be one of them.  As you can see there is no constant and rules are made to be broken or at least suspended such as this case.   This happened to be one of those situations that the solution would have been immediately apparent if I had just forgotten the stripping basket that day.

I'm sorry that this turned into another long winded explanation.  Hope it helped.   

 

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Thanks Alan.  I’ll give the Lazer a try. On the windy days maybe the best course is putting on the spool with the heavier shooting line.

ive never looked at wind as a problem...just a variable to deal with. Years of skiff fishing in the keys teaches you the view wind as a daily event. In fact, I enjoy taking the TH down to the park and casting into a good headwind. Call me a glutton for punishment....but helps on the on shore wind days when everyone else stays home. 

 

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bobbrown

If you are using a seven weight two hand rod or larger in the salt I would suggest that you try the OPST Lazer Running Line 50lb test. 

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